In our present situation we need a hard stop on new immigration. Period. We need to stabilize many, many things in society before we are able to absorb more people.
Now to philosophize a bit; which is mental masturbation in these times...
I don't necessarily have a problem with the right of travel and movement - but what gets missed about most rights is the corresponding responsibility. The traveler has the responsibility to assimilate to the culture and society they are entering. Not to say they can't bring new ideas to the party, but they must first respect Chesterton's Fence, understand the norms and why they are that way before even attempting to introduce anything new.
I like Chesterton's Fence principle a lot. I often use that to describe my conservative position on many things. Though I'm not opposed to changes per say, I need to understand why something (a rule, cultural norm, practice, etc) exists as it does before I do so that I can truly make an assessment of whether that change should be made and then subsequently what is the solution and it's tradeoffs that will need to take it's place. Throwing something out is easy, understanding why it exists with it's purpose and then coming up with an idea to replace it takes work...not many want to do that part of the equation.
I think there is another issue, things that are okay in small amounts or for a short period of time are not always okay in large amounts or over a long period of time. Is a single person coming to the US and living here really a big deal? No it's not really a problem in a practical sense even if they are a permanent outsider. But thousands and thousands for years and years? It's going to be incredibly destructive. It's why I hate Carpetbagging so much. All these people moving to Florida or NH or whatever other state who don't actually appreciate the place they are moving to or think of the people there as making it the way it is (Magic Dirt Theory) end up changing the characteristic of it completely. They arn't doing anything immoral on the face of it but because so many people are doing what is only okay in small amounts its incredibly destructive.
Old New York which was Anglo and Dutch doesn't exist anymore. The old School racists at the time who were raging at the Irish and Italian immigrants were completely right and completely justified, their way of life is gone forever now.
Will never forget that Tweet you put out a while ago when all the Haitians were brought to that border and pushed through like “ Hey look these are the people thats going to build Ancapistan! “ 🤣 all the Whinning & moaning after that dropped was so embarrassing & they were all Ancaps & Libertarians like you fucking goobers clowns LOL
First of all the open borders position for immigration is ridiculous. It's never made sense and those who defend it tread on some pretty weak ground in my opinion. All of life from the very small to the very large are about borders and boundaries. You wouldn't let just anyone waltz right into your house, this principle extends outward. Consider for a moment just one argument that has vexed me for sometime. Those who are in favor of open borders, does this not seem to also advocate for a "stateless" society where one can travel/live/work/etc anywhere they wish without concern of governing rules for a particular society? If this is the sensical complete end point to this argument then couldn't those people arguing for that position simply become useful fools for the Klaus Schwabs of the world pushing for one world government type situations? Likewise this can dilute a culture which one may wish to preserve by erasing all boundaries.
Additionally, this article critically exposes the problems of statistics. Statistics are great in some ways but can be used very cleverly and craftily to hide or promote specific points of view. Always be willing to drill down and look a little closer before you just blindly go along with someones numbers. My dad always said that if you say something with enough confidence then most people won't question you, this is an excellent example/application of this.
"You wouldn't let just anyone waltz right into your house"
Exactly. I think a good litmus test for most positions is how scalable it is and your statement hits the nail on the head. There is no situation where any rational person would let someone with no skin in the game demand part of your resources and set policy. You wouldn't do it with your home, business or neighborhood.
Yes scalability is absolutely key! It's a matter of degree not kind.
Skin in the game is imperative to someone valuing something for what it's truly worth. Otherwise it's just the free t-shirt you got at the minor league hockey game that ends up on the rag pile because...hey, I mean it was free, ya know?
So, it goes so far beyond just what it costs tax payers in schools. It’s what it costs all the other students to be in a school (cough cough California, New Mexico) where the immigrant children and children of immigrants are the bulk of the students therein. The disparity of education between native English speakers and ESL is irreconcilable yet because of the notion of tolerance, all must share classes- almost without exception. To bridge this gap, parents of native English speakers have been CONNED into believing language immersion programs are to enrich their children. They get hard sold on this and it’s painted up like a glittery butterfly. In essence, every student in an immersion program is taught in public school from day 1 to learn all their subjects in a completely foreign language. The theory is that they will be behind in every subject initially for a few years but as they learn the language only spoken at school, not at home, not in the grocery store, not on TV, eventually, they will “catch up.” They give them weird languages like French where they will have little outside exposure to find anyone speaking this language outside of the classroom. So, what this does is puts Spanish speaking ESL kids at a huge advantage. It allows for them to not only catch up, but as they live in an English speaking culture, they surpass the kids they attend school with. And the sad thing is, that whatever “catch up” means to anyone, in the public school system, I can assure you it means catch up to equal with ESL kids. It does not mean, pass where they would have been in their education had they started learning all their math and grammar and science and history in their native tongue. They will never surpass those kids in anything except French or Portuguese. But you can’t tell these parents because they are so enthusiastic about these programs... It Harrison Bergeron shit is what it is. Sad times. But how does our culture advance when the school is literally and quite intentionally going out of their way to make children equal by dumbing down the ones that had any hope of being future engineers of thought??? What it costs us to have a high volume of non native, non English speaking immigrants in a society that hasn’t changed any of the other rules is unaffordable. I am all for open borders, AFTER you fix the system. But to throw your hands up and say, “the system will never be fixed so we should just let anyone come here and exploit the over extorted tax payers” is plain evil. You show me someone who agrees with this and I’ll show you someone who owns nothing and is convincing themselves despite this, they are happy.
In our present situation we need a hard stop on new immigration. Period. We need to stabilize many, many things in society before we are able to absorb more people.
Now to philosophize a bit; which is mental masturbation in these times...
I don't necessarily have a problem with the right of travel and movement - but what gets missed about most rights is the corresponding responsibility. The traveler has the responsibility to assimilate to the culture and society they are entering. Not to say they can't bring new ideas to the party, but they must first respect Chesterton's Fence, understand the norms and why they are that way before even attempting to introduce anything new.
I like Chesterton's Fence principle a lot. I often use that to describe my conservative position on many things. Though I'm not opposed to changes per say, I need to understand why something (a rule, cultural norm, practice, etc) exists as it does before I do so that I can truly make an assessment of whether that change should be made and then subsequently what is the solution and it's tradeoffs that will need to take it's place. Throwing something out is easy, understanding why it exists with it's purpose and then coming up with an idea to replace it takes work...not many want to do that part of the equation.
I think there is another issue, things that are okay in small amounts or for a short period of time are not always okay in large amounts or over a long period of time. Is a single person coming to the US and living here really a big deal? No it's not really a problem in a practical sense even if they are a permanent outsider. But thousands and thousands for years and years? It's going to be incredibly destructive. It's why I hate Carpetbagging so much. All these people moving to Florida or NH or whatever other state who don't actually appreciate the place they are moving to or think of the people there as making it the way it is (Magic Dirt Theory) end up changing the characteristic of it completely. They arn't doing anything immoral on the face of it but because so many people are doing what is only okay in small amounts its incredibly destructive.
Old New York which was Anglo and Dutch doesn't exist anymore. The old School racists at the time who were raging at the Irish and Italian immigrants were completely right and completely justified, their way of life is gone forever now.
This is a good point. Intensity and duration matter.
Will never forget that Tweet you put out a while ago when all the Haitians were brought to that border and pushed through like “ Hey look these are the people thats going to build Ancapistan! “ 🤣 all the Whinning & moaning after that dropped was so embarrassing & they were all Ancaps & Libertarians like you fucking goobers clowns LOL
😆😆
First of all the open borders position for immigration is ridiculous. It's never made sense and those who defend it tread on some pretty weak ground in my opinion. All of life from the very small to the very large are about borders and boundaries. You wouldn't let just anyone waltz right into your house, this principle extends outward. Consider for a moment just one argument that has vexed me for sometime. Those who are in favor of open borders, does this not seem to also advocate for a "stateless" society where one can travel/live/work/etc anywhere they wish without concern of governing rules for a particular society? If this is the sensical complete end point to this argument then couldn't those people arguing for that position simply become useful fools for the Klaus Schwabs of the world pushing for one world government type situations? Likewise this can dilute a culture which one may wish to preserve by erasing all boundaries.
Additionally, this article critically exposes the problems of statistics. Statistics are great in some ways but can be used very cleverly and craftily to hide or promote specific points of view. Always be willing to drill down and look a little closer before you just blindly go along with someones numbers. My dad always said that if you say something with enough confidence then most people won't question you, this is an excellent example/application of this.
"You wouldn't let just anyone waltz right into your house"
Exactly. I think a good litmus test for most positions is how scalable it is and your statement hits the nail on the head. There is no situation where any rational person would let someone with no skin in the game demand part of your resources and set policy. You wouldn't do it with your home, business or neighborhood.
Yes scalability is absolutely key! It's a matter of degree not kind.
Skin in the game is imperative to someone valuing something for what it's truly worth. Otherwise it's just the free t-shirt you got at the minor league hockey game that ends up on the rag pile because...hey, I mean it was free, ya know?
So, it goes so far beyond just what it costs tax payers in schools. It’s what it costs all the other students to be in a school (cough cough California, New Mexico) where the immigrant children and children of immigrants are the bulk of the students therein. The disparity of education between native English speakers and ESL is irreconcilable yet because of the notion of tolerance, all must share classes- almost without exception. To bridge this gap, parents of native English speakers have been CONNED into believing language immersion programs are to enrich their children. They get hard sold on this and it’s painted up like a glittery butterfly. In essence, every student in an immersion program is taught in public school from day 1 to learn all their subjects in a completely foreign language. The theory is that they will be behind in every subject initially for a few years but as they learn the language only spoken at school, not at home, not in the grocery store, not on TV, eventually, they will “catch up.” They give them weird languages like French where they will have little outside exposure to find anyone speaking this language outside of the classroom. So, what this does is puts Spanish speaking ESL kids at a huge advantage. It allows for them to not only catch up, but as they live in an English speaking culture, they surpass the kids they attend school with. And the sad thing is, that whatever “catch up” means to anyone, in the public school system, I can assure you it means catch up to equal with ESL kids. It does not mean, pass where they would have been in their education had they started learning all their math and grammar and science and history in their native tongue. They will never surpass those kids in anything except French or Portuguese. But you can’t tell these parents because they are so enthusiastic about these programs... It Harrison Bergeron shit is what it is. Sad times. But how does our culture advance when the school is literally and quite intentionally going out of their way to make children equal by dumbing down the ones that had any hope of being future engineers of thought??? What it costs us to have a high volume of non native, non English speaking immigrants in a society that hasn’t changed any of the other rules is unaffordable. I am all for open borders, AFTER you fix the system. But to throw your hands up and say, “the system will never be fixed so we should just let anyone come here and exploit the over extorted tax payers” is plain evil. You show me someone who agrees with this and I’ll show you someone who owns nothing and is convincing themselves despite this, they are happy.
Hahaha! How so?
Sorry, was responding to someone else and it was put in wrong place